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From Asad Habib <aha...@engin.umich.edu>
Subject Re: Some questions
Date Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:49:11 GMT
Well, it depends on what you need to do. Struts 1.x is NOT inferior to any 
other framework out there. In fact, it does what it was designed to do 
perfectly. I would caution against listening to people on this list who 
tell you otherwise because they dislike Struts because it does not fit all 
their needs. Well, offcourse it doesn't because it was NOT designed to. 
Heck, I can choose 10 other frameworks out there and say there are useless 
because they don't meet my needs. That's why a typical multi-tiered web 
application uses several frameworks instead of simply one.

- Asad

On Wed, 5 Apr 2006, Dakota Jack wrote:

> Frank, the other options do what you need, are simpler to code, are easier
> to maintain, etc.  Recommending Struts 1.x is not a nice thing to do to
> someone.  That is just true.  It is inferior and everyone knows it that
> knows about frameworks.  Being able to test easy, having a quick turn
> around, being able to maintain things cheaply, that is what being on what
> you call the "bleeding edge" is.  What to you think it is?  Jet
> programming.  The "bleeding edge", if you mean things like Spring, are just
> technically superior and have tremendous business benefits.  There is NO
> reason to use Struts 1.x over WebWorks or Spring.  You are not making sense.
>
> On 4/5/06, Bart Busschots <bart@cs.nuim.ie> wrote:
>>
>> Jonathan Revusky wrote:
>>> What do you mean "so what", Frank? If one is new to the java web
>>> application space, why on earth should one start using a framework
>>> like Struts Classic that (a) is not state of the art and (b) is not
>>> going to be developed any further?
>>>
>>> WHY?
>> Because it does what you need? Because it does MORE than you need?
>> Because there is a much larger community out there with the skills you
>> need? Because there are more online resources to help you when you get
>> stuck? Because the platform is stable, reliable and tested in the real
>> world? I could go on but I think you get the point. The bleeding edge is
>> NOT a good place to be on a production system! If it ain't broke, don't
>> fix it!
>>
>> I get very annoyed when people insist that you have to be at the
>> bleeding edge of everything or you're being stupid. That's just not a
>> real world view of things, it's an idealized view from an ivory tower IMO.
>>
>>>> Does Struts as it exists today serve a great many people very well?
>>>> Yes.  Does everyone need every single new feature available out
>>>> there?  No.  You know, I've had my complaints as well, but
>>>> ultimately, if the offering is doing the job for so many, how does
>>>> how far behind the state of the art it is really matter?
>>>
>>> What you're saying is senseless IMO. In this discussion, the onus is
>>> not on me to explain why somebody new to the java web app space should
>>> not use Struts 1.x. The onus is on the other side of the debate to
>>> explain why somebody should use it, given that it is (a) quite far
>>> behind the state of the art and (b) is not going to be developed any
>>> further.
>> See above points and it IS being developed further, 1.3 is on the way!
>>>
>>> The onus is on you to explain why somebody should not do the
>>> common-sensical thing of looking for something that is state of the
>>> art and that will have an ongoing development effort behind it. Such a
>>> thing could be Webwork a.k.a. Struts Action 2, or *maybe* this Shale
>>> thing or it could be something else.
>>>
>> Looking for state of the art is not common-sensical! In the real world
>> there are many more factors to consider than just wither or not you use
>> the latest bleeding edge technology. Stability and a proven track record
>> count for a lot as do the availability of skills and help and
>> documentation and books etc. You are looking at just a single factor and
>> assuming it is the only factor when it simply isn't in the real world.
>>
>> Bart.
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
> ~Dakota Jack~
>

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