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From Ruwan Linton <ruwan.lin...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Generating Names for Anon. Endpoints
Date Tue, 04 May 2010 15:41:03 GMT
Folks,

I completely agree that the correction is the highest priority.

but JMX management and error notifications like suspensions and so forth
cannot be controlled if those endpoints are inlined in, say send mediator.
The JMX management and all that are only possible for declared endpoint.

The only enforcement that we can do to get rid of all that is to disable the
ability to have inlined endpoints, but I am strongly -1 on this approach,
since it reduces a usability a lot.

Also, please note that we do not sacrifice correctness by any means hear, if
we do this enforcement, we loose the usability and if we keep this as it is
then again what we will loose is the usability, but the usability reduction
on the first approach is huge with compared to doing this change.

Hence, I am -1 on enforcing a name for inlined endpoints or disabling the
ability to have inlined endpoints.

Thanks,
Ruwan

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:22 PM, indika kumara <indika.kuma@gmail.com> wrote:

> I too agree with supun ...
>
> The usability may depend on the answer for 'Why does a user like in-lined
> configurations? '.  That is why I really needed a good answer from real
> users...
>
> The correctness is come first and the most important quality attribute than
> other quality attributes.   Irrespective of the criticality of the operation
> that depends on the name of the endpoint, the operation should be worked
> correctly. At least, if any operation that needs the name of the endpoint is
> enabled, then we should validate the uniqueness of the endpoint name.
>
> Thanks
> Indika
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva <supun06@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Ruwan Linton <ruwan.linton@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Hiranya Jayathilaka <
>>> hiranya911@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 11:23 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva <supun06@gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Hiranya Jayathilaka <
>>>>> hiranya911@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Supun,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva <
>>>>>> supun06@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry I'm bit late to the conversation. I think the proper solution
>>>>>>> would be to force the user to have a name for each and every
endpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we should be a little more flexible here. Most users will
>>>>>> appreciate the ability to define in-line endpoints anonymously. It's
a
>>>>>> usability thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Here I'm not suggesting to remove the support for anonymous endpoints.
>>>>> My suggestion was to force a name to every endpoint regardless of weather
>>>>> they are defined in-line or separately.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Supun, this is exactly what I think we shouldn't be doing. If we are
>>>> forcing the user to define names for each and every endpoint, then we are
>>>> actually getting rid of the support for anonymous endpoints.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> We should try our best to keep the simple case as simple. Anonymous
>>> endpoints are very usable from the users point of view, and at least 70-80%
>>> of the users are not enabling clustering, if we are to enforce a name for
>>> every endpoint regardless whether it is inlined or not, we are making the
>>> simple case hard from the user point of view.
>>>
>>> My belief is doing the correct thing is important than the usability at
>> least when the usability degradation is minimal. I think that is the exact
>> reason why we are trying to make the synapse language schema compliant now.
>>
>> Also forcing a name for an inline endpoint is not that user un-friendly.
>> To define an endpoint user has to do many things. So I think just including
>> the name attribute is not a big user un-friendly thing compared to all the
>> things user has to do already.
>>
>> My concerns about name generation are not only with clustering. Lets say
>> an anonymous endpoint got suspended or received a time-out error. How can
>> the user know which endpoint got suspended or received the error?
>>
>> Also lets say user wants to do JMX monitoring. How can he distinguish the
>> different endpoints?
>>
>> I think synapse language should always force the production best practices
>> and I think having a meaningful name to an endpoint is a production best
>> practice that every deployment should do.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Supun..
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ruwan
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Hiranya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Even now user can do this. But system doesn't enforce this, and we have
>>>>> to generate a name. So my suggestion was to make the name attribute of
>>>>> the endpoint mandatory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Supun..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a best practice in a production deployment. The name helps
to
>>>>>>> understand endpoint behavior. For example when an endpoint is
suspended user
>>>>>>> cannot identify it easily if it doesn't have a name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1... But it should only be a best practice. If the user does not
want
>>>>>> to bother with endpoint management stuff then forcing him to set
names for
>>>>>> each and every endpoint is not necessary (Needless to say, a large
config
>>>>>> would have dozens and dozens of endpoints - so it's not an easy job
either).
>>>>>> Also other than these management capabilities, names of the in-line
>>>>>> endpoints don't have any other usage either. You cannot refer to
them from
>>>>>> other sequences etc using the specified name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the problem is with clustering scenarios, they will work just
fine,
>>>>>> since we are generating names for unnamed, in-line endpoints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Hiranya
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it is good if we can enforce this at the synapse level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Supun...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Ruwan Linton <
>>>>>>> ruwan.linton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ruwan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Hiranya Jayathilaka <
>>>>>>>> hiranya911@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here's a little progress update. I have realized that
it is
>>>>>>>>> difficult to generate descriptive and context sensitive
names for endpoints
>>>>>>>>> on the fly. Reason is given an endpoint we cannot determine
it's parent. We
>>>>>>>>> can do that for proxy services, but for sequences it
is almost impossible.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore we will have to stick to the UUIDs at least
for the moment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However I was able to get the concept of endpoint anonymity
>>>>>>>>> implemented without changing the top level Endpoint interface.
All the
>>>>>>>>> endpoint serializers work with the AbstractEndpoint level,
so I added the
>>>>>>>>> necessary methods there. If the user hasn't explicitly
specified a name for
>>>>>>>>> an endpoint it is considered anonymous. The system will
generate names for
>>>>>>>>> such endpoints but they will not be displayed in the
serialization.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have raised SYNAPSE-627 to keep track of this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Hiranya
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Ruwan Linton <
>>>>>>>>> ruwan.linton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ruwan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Hiranya Jayathilaka
<
>>>>>>>>>> hiranya911@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Ruwan Linton
<
>>>>>>>>>>> ruwan.linton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hiranya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lets introduce an internal flag to the endpoint
so that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> builder and the serializer pair sets and
checks respectively to make the
>>>>>>>>>>>> generated name transparent from the users
configuration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To address the issue of having different,
UUID's on different
>>>>>>>>>>>> server start sessions, we could compute the
endpoint name by looking at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> parent sequence name, for example like "main_ep_1"
and so forth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That makes sense. Shall we add following two
methods to the
>>>>>>>>>>> Endpoint interface then?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> public boolean isAnonymous();
>>>>>>>>>>> public void setAnonymous();
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anonymous endpoints will also get a generated
name but that will
>>>>>>>>>>> not be shown to the user in the serialization.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Hiranya
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ruwan
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Hiranya
Jayathilaka <
>>>>>>>>>>>> hiranya911@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently Synapse generates names for
anonymous endpoints. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an example take the following sequence:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sequence name="foo">
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     <send>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>        <endpoint>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>            <address uri="some address"/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>        </endpoint>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>     </send>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> </sequence>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Synapse will generate a UUID and set
that as the name of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> endpoint. This is required since all
endpoints must have names in clustered
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deployments. However generating names
causes the serialization to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different from the original input XML.
As a result we currently have a bunch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of test failures in the trunk. Any idea
how to resolve this problem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hiranya Jayathilaka
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.;  http://wso2.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail: hiranya@wso2.com;  Mobile: +94
77 633 3491
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://techfeast-hiranya.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ruwan Linton
>>>>>>>>>>>> Technical Lead & Product Manager; WSO2
ESB; http://wso2.org/esb
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>  email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341
3097
>>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Hiranya Jayathilaka
>>>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer;
>>>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.;  http://wso2.org
>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail: hiranya@wso2.com;  Mobile: +94 77 633
3491
>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://techfeast-hiranya.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ruwan Linton
>>>>>>>>>> Technical Lead & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB; http://wso2.org/esb
>>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
>>>>>>>>>> email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Hiranya Jayathilaka
>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer;
>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.;  http://wso2.org
>>>>>>>>> E-mail: hiranya@wso2.com;  Mobile: +94 77 633 3491
>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://techfeast-hiranya.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ruwan Linton
>>>>>>>> Technical Lead & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB; http://wso2.org/esb
>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
>>>>>>>> email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
>>>>>>>> blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Software Engineer, WSO2 Inc
>>>>>>> http://wso2.org
>>>>>>> supunk.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Hiranya Jayathilaka
>>>>>> Software Engineer;
>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.;  http://wso2.org
>>>>>> E-mail: hiranya@wso2.com;  Mobile: +94 77 633 3491
>>>>>> Blog: http://techfeast-hiranya.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Software Engineer, WSO2 Inc
>>>>> http://wso2.org
>>>>> supunk.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Hiranya Jayathilaka
>>>> Software Engineer;
>>>> WSO2 Inc.;  http://wso2.org
>>>> E-mail: hiranya@wso2.com;  Mobile: +94 77 633 3491
>>>> Blog: http://techfeast-hiranya.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ruwan Linton
>>> Technical Lead & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB; http://wso2.org/esb
>>> WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
>>> email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
>>> blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Software Engineer, WSO2 Inc
>> http://wso2.org
>> supunk.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Ruwan Linton
Technical Lead & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB; http://wso2.org/esb
WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com

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