tapestry-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Alessio Gambi <agamb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: “Choosing Your Java Web Framework” by Richard Pack from salesforce.com
Date Wed, 12 Oct 2011 20:04:24 GMT
Hi all,

My 2 cents... Maybe 4 :)

> We need lots of *users*
> posting about Tapestry, not just the committers.

Tapestry is powerful but has a very hard learning curve that sometimes is too much for the
big audience and this is almost a proven fact.

Ways to attract the big audience via documentation, blog, posting and dissemination in general
(one book and a half?) are fine. However, I feel that there is something else missing (note:
my personal point of view!): a KILLER APP, i.e. a focused, concise and conceptually simple
application that can *Just Be Used* by the users to make something useful for them; a MARKET,
i.e. a well known and recognize place to produce value (not only monetary value!) via components,
services and integration solutions to exchange, release, and sell; and, a PRESS-like dissemination
channel, either a magazine or a Web-zine, where authors can submit contributions that committers
can review and publish (with the name of the original authors :) )

Assume that more *users* are attracted by this. There is still the gap (at the beginning at
least) of learning the Tapestry Way of doing things; it is important to fill it quite fast
otherwise there is the risk that users simply lost their way ... And the will to spend more
time using the framework.
Here what's missing (again, my personal point of view) are a set of consistent and integrated
TOOLS to support the entire development cycle, not only the coding fun part of it.  Notable
work in this direction is for example the JumpStart app (thanks guys!). Up to now, something
from the framework itself is already there (ServiceStatus page) and something more is coming,
but there's still a lot of space for improvement. Note, I acknowledge the work done on the
Eclipse integration side, but here I am referring to more conceptual tools to reason about
an application (not just web part), reverse engineering it, and doing architecture recovery
(or if you like... Just Understand it). For example, how many class transformation workers
are used? How they chain? How many services? How they depend on each others? How many pages?
What's the navigation map of the web application? I got this new module, what's inside? How
this impact my application? Does it overrides any service of mine? As so on... 

You guys have much more experience that I do.

Hope it helps in organizing efforts and inspiring people!

Go tap !!!

Ciao
-- Alessio



On 12-ott-2011, at 17:39, Howard Lewis Ship <hlship@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would vote -1 on any sweeping, incompatible change. I would vote -1
> on simply naming it Tapestry 6.0.  I think the community will accept
> minor hiccups, but change package names or other whole scale revisions
> are not on the table. Yes, there's a ton of minor things I would fix
> if I was starting from scratch AGAIN. No, I will not do that.
> 
> If you notice in 5.3, there idea that you can contribute objects of
> the wrong type and have the TypeCoercer fix them is huge. We need more
> of that. We need to find ways to change and rename interfaces without
> breaking contributions & overrides.
> 
> To keep Tapestry relevant we need:
> - A much improved client-side / Ajax story
>     - We have the foundation for this, I expect to do much more work in 5.4
> - API stability
>     - The IoC container really helps here, by having many small
> interfaces and DI magic to wire it all together
> - Marketing & Documentation
> 
> Taha and Igor have been leading the way with more blog posts; Bob &
> folks have been leading the way with all the great work on
> documentation. But we need more of that. We need lots of *users*
> posting about Tapestry, not just the committers.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:12 AM, CPC <achalil@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What is howard opinion? having a major version which is backward compatible
>> would be good as perception and js compatibility layer is a good target.
>>  On Oct 12, 2011 11:05 AM, "Igor Drobiazko" <igor.drobiazko@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> C'mon. We don't need Tapestry 6. Tapestry 5.0 was release almost three
>>> years
>>> ago. Since than we released 5.1, 5.2 and are just about to release 5.3.
>>> Isn't it a proof that Tapestry team cares about framework's stability?
>>> People who are still bashing Tapestry for being backward incompatible are
>>> loosing their credibility. They go to conferences and talk about stuff they
>>> have absolutely no idea about.
>>> 
>>> I believe that Tapestry 6 release would cause a lot of rummors and would
>>> harm more. Also note that our packages are org.apache.tapestry5.*.
>>> Releasing
>>> Tapestry 6 would mean renaming packages which would break any existing app.
>>> Why shall we do that?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Lenny Primak <lprimak@hope.nyc.ny.us
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I agree 100%. Let's go tapestry 6.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 11, 2011, at 9:08 PM, "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <
>>>> thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:43:15 -0300, Bob Harner <bobharner@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sadly,  I suppose the compatibility issue will stay in peoples' minds
>>>>>> until, years from now, Tapestry 6 comes out and is fully compatible
>>>>>> with Tapestry 5.9. Or, hey, maybe 5.4 should be named 6.0 just for
>>>>>> that reason :-)   ... kidding, of course.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kidding? I think it's a good idea, definitely worth of being discussed.
>>>> ;) Even having great, big advancements in documentation, Tapestry is a
>>> way
>>>> better framework than its own marketing IMHO . . .
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>>>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant,
>>> developer,
>>>> and instructor
>>>>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>>>>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Igor Drobiazko
>>> http://tapestry5.de
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> 
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
> 
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> 
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org


Mime
View raw message