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From Rohit Jain <>
Subject RE: [DISCUSSION] Work towards graduation
Date Tue, 21 Feb 2017 20:03:01 GMT

You bring up a very pertinent point that we brought up to Stack the last time.  There are
projects that one could argue may have the same risk as Trafodion of not prevailing if a company
does not survive.  But I guess that risk is mitigated somewhat to where those companies, such
as Cloudera, are in their market presence versus Esgyn perhaps.  But the other reason provided
was the involvement of many folks associated with Kudu, as an example, with other open source
projects.  Our committers have not had as much involvement with other projects, perhaps because
the complexity and the backlog of what we need to accomplish for our customers is large enough
that it has not afforded us time to contribute towards other open source projects, even though
we have always had the intent with HBase, ORC, etc.

We have a good number of customers in China and a modest presence in the US.  But our customers
so far themselves may not have the open source culture, or the resources to contribute to
the project itself.  Plus, most of our code is in C++, although we have provided guidance
to new developers on how to contribute towards the fair amount of code that we do have in
Java.  So, certainly these have hindered the growth of the community.

There is increasing frustration within Esgyn about open source and open sourcing anything
into Apache since there is a huge cost to the company of maintaining an extra set of threads
and versions, with no obvious path to TLP because of the reasons mentioned.  It seems that
satisfying the decision makers, despite personal declarations of developers that they would
be involved with the project beyond Esgyn, and that it would be crazy to think that no one
would be interested in picking up such an incredible IP if anything were to happen to Esgyn
-- this is decades of hundreds of million dollars of investment, into an incredible database
technology, capable of running TPC-C and TPC-DS at very impressive numbers compared to the
competition, with all queries executing while fully complying with the specs on the syntax
(that no other vendor has been able to achieve in the Big Data world).  Full Hybrid Transactional/Analytical
Processing support on Hadoop with unmatched performance on both ends of the spectrum.  Maybe
we are just horrible at Marketing that a jewel of an engine like Trafodion must fight to get
to TLP after all that we have done to try to make it ready for it.

So, this is an ongoing struggle.  From what I understand all projects are supposed to have
2-3 mentors.  We have had Stack who has done a great job.  But we need other strong mentors
who can actively back the project and present its value to the Apache Foundation and what
we have accomplished to qualify for TLP.  We have requested more mentors, but the same decision
makers on TLP, seem to have ignored those requests.  So, go figure how the Apache foundation
and its community works.

I probably have stepped beyond the line in what I have said out of my own frustrations.  These
in no way reflect the views of Esgyn but as an individual associated with Apache Trafodion,
as they should.


-----Original Message-----
From: James Taylor [] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Work towards graduation

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Stack <> wrote:

> Is there general agreement with Pierre's belief? If there were no Esgyn,
> would Trafodion prevail? Asking here so we are prepared when question
> comes up on the general incubator list.
Did that question come up wrt Cloudera and Kudu for graduation?
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