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From "Peter Romianowski" <>
Subject RE: comparing monetary value
Date Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:57:03 GMT
  Just to end this thread, could one of the developers answer this
(very constructive) mail (I mean the one from Daniel) in *detail*. 
I would love to use decimals too and I don't see why people deny that, 
BUT nevertheless I love Velocity and I would *really*, I mean like 
*desperately really* :), know why there are no decimals but only 
integers supported. The number-formatting-feature is not the point, 
that should be done by a tool.

  Simply put, why is #if ($myIQ < 42.5) BAD? I know the answers are in
this and that mail, but please give me a simple single sentence starting
with "Velocity does not support decimals, because ...". I already
realized (partly the hard way :) that you will not implement decimals.

  I will not switch over to another template engine, because Velocity's
simple design *rocks* (note: no contradiction here), although some
development could be done (decimals, macros, perhaps

  I would like to end this thread in a *nice* way, not saying "hey
man, go use something else" or "hey man, you suck" from each of the
"parties" (not that someone said something as rude as that).

  My $0 (<- result if ${2/100} - sorry for that :)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Dekany [] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 5:23 AM
> To: Velocity Users List
> Subject: Re: comparing monetary value
> Thursday, October 17, 2002, 2:22:14 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > On 10/16/02 3:19 PM, "Tim Colson" <> wrote:
> >> Note: seems fair to disclose that Jonathan, to paraphrase the 
> >> FreeMarker website, "rewrote the core of FreeMarker". 
> Also, I noticed 
> >> that Daniel is heavily active on the FM-DEV list. It 
> puzzles me, but 
> >> I will not speculate on why these gents are so worked up 
> about having 
> >> this feature in Velocity, since by Jonathan's own explanation, it 
> >> already exists in the Freemarker template engine which both chaps 
> >> seem to prefer.
> >> 
> >
> > Yes, I too wonder why Jonathan and Daniel are so worked up 
> about this.
> <OT>
> Could you please stop this "Jonathan and Daniel" thing... It 
> such a waffle. If someone wonder, I tell you why I'm here: 
> Simply, I heard that Jonathan is here, and I was Velocity 
> list reader in the pre-FM 2.x times, and I was curious what 
> will happen now. And I just can't stop myself to reply when I 
> see something nonsense. It has nothing to do with the fact 
> that I'm involved in FM. What's then? I don't get payment for 
> FM users... </OT>
> So... returning to the essence...
> I don't understand why are you so reluctant about decimals. 
> (Well, frankly, I have an idea, but I don't tell it again.) 
> What are your counter arguments? (I ask you because you are 
> the leader developer here, AFAIK.)
> To prevent needles communication, here are a few 
> counter-arguments, and why are they invalid (IMO). I don't 
> say here that you say these counter-arguments.
> 1.
> - Decimals inherently problematic because of the rounding 
> complications (1.49999999999999 and such things).
> - Yes, but decimals are existing in the real-life. Is this a 
> good logic when someone does not solve something because the 
> solution is not trivial? Obviously it does not make sense. 
> Also, exactly because it is not a trivial topic, it is better 
> if Velocity solves this, than leave individuals to develop 
> tools for it.
> 2.
> - It would complicate/distort the syntax.
> - I don't think so. The only point where it touches the 
> syntax is that you can write constants like 1.5. But it is 
> just a little extension of the syntax, right? Also, it is 
> such an obvious thing.
> 3.
> - It would complicate/distort the semantic.
> - From the viewpoint of designer it would *simplify* the 
> semantic. Everyday people find it natural that he can use 
> decimals. Integers and decimals are not separated so strictly 
> in the brain of non-programmer. They are just all numbers. 
> What they don't find natural is that 90/100=0 (since it is 
> nonsense), or that they can't compare two numbers, because 
> one of them is not integer.
> 4.
> - Velocity should solve number formatting then.
> - It is cleanly an MVC view task, right? So it is the task of 
> Velocity. Anyway, you must solve it, wether you like it or 
> not, and now you are forced to solve it with custom tools. 
> Not to mention that number formatting issues are existing 
> even if you support integers only (e.g. someone may use 
> grouping when display integers.) A standard tool is a 
> possible solution.
> 5.
> - We just discuss that we will develop a standard tool...
> - That's OK for solving the formatting problem, but in fact 
> it has nothing to do with the question (i.e. supporting 
> decimals or not). Operators still will not work (90/100 = 0, 
> relational operators don't work...). I know, you can use 
> tools for do these things, but this in itself is not a 
> counter-argument... maybe you can say that it makes decimals 
> +0 in this field. However, I would disagree then: would not 
> it be much better if 1/2 is simply 0.5?
> 6.
> - Designers needs only integers
> - I don't think so, but that's a somewhat subjective 
> question. Also, I guess the number of requests means that it 
> is not that uncommon thing that someone need decimals. But 
> even if they need it 1 times per 1000 year (I doubt), in 
> itself it is again a +0 argument.
> So the main point is that simply I don't see a reason 
> *against* decimals (while I and many other uses see reasons 
> *for* decimals). Why would be that harmful?
> So, what are your *counter-arguments* against decimals?
> --
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