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From Lev Epshteyn <>
Subject RE: Using FM to implement a denial of service attack on an emaili ng list
Date Tue, 01 Jul 2003 16:06:26 GMT
Jon Revusky wrote:
> Well, I take as a given that a lot of people don't like it. I also take 
> as a given that my blunt comments about the state of the Velocity 
> project have a definite obnoxious side. However, I also take as a given 
> that these people do not really have any legitimate grievance. If you 
> don't like me making these comments, then get your act together. You 
> want to talk the talk, then walk the walk, dammit!

So are you saying that objecting to you repeatedly posting "obnoxously blunt
comments" is not a legitimate 

The problem with you repeatedly pointing out Velocity's flaws is that your
criticism is not constructive.

Using a product support list for advertising purposes of a competing product
(which is what your stated goal is) would get you kicked from just about any
other list I can think of. I think that the fact that the Velocity list
admins have not yet done so speaks volumes of their tolerance and dedication
to free speech. But just because they refuse to sensor you, does not mean
that you need to presist pestering the user base. While agree that your
audience here may be well targetted, by advertising here, you are misusing
the list, and painting the Freemarker project in bad light with your lack of
tact. If I had not been I Freemarker user from the pre-JR era, I doubt I
would have looked at it now - and I would have missed out on the many great
changes that you yourself have added. I respect you as a programmer, and
believe you stand behind a great product, but your tactics in pushing it
down the throats of an unwilling audience in such an obnoxious manner are

This is why you were asked (and agreed - promised in fact) to leave. To use
your new favorite phrase, if you want to talk the talk, walk the walk. 

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