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From "Claude Brisson" <cla...@savoirweb.com>
Subject Re: Velocity + Database
Date Tue, 05 Aug 2003 05:26:52 GMT
> Velosurf also seemed like overkill at first but we are looking at
> moving to it now.  It is definitely a good option.

Glad to hear that. I hope it will fullfill your needs. But be aware it is only version 0.7,
I mean it may not yet be accurate for
the command-control system of your nuclear power plant... ;-)

Do not hesitate if you need any help in any form. Criticism is also welcome.

CloD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kuhn" <bnkuhn@hotmail.com>
To: <velocity-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: samedi 26 juillet 2003 23:19
Subject: Re: Velocity + Database


>
> MVC is great for full blown web applications, but one of the beautiful
> things about velocity-tools is that I can have inexperienced programmers
> bang out a highly customized report in an hour or two.  For
> simple/throw-away dynamic pages, MVC is too much work even with a framework
> setup.  Velosurf also seemed like overkill at first, but we are looking at
> moving to it now.  It is definitely a good option.  Currently, I provide my
> report writers with a toolbox including a getDatabaseView tool similar to
> what the original poster was talking about.  They write their template
> however they want and they (and more importantly, I) never have to write
> servlet code for simple reports.
>
> -Brian
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Nathan Bubna" <nathan@esha.com>
> Reply-To: "Velocity Users List" <velocity-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: "Velocity Users List" <velocity-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Velocity + Database
> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:07:22 -0700
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>
> Aaron Freeman said:
>  > Nathan said:
>  > > Aaron Freeman said:
>  > > > Are there any Velocity tool sets that allow you to write your
>  > > database SQL
>  > > > inside your .vm templates instead of having to bury the SQL
>  > > code inside of
>  > > > servlets?
>  > > ...
> ...
>  > > fyi: this is generally considered a really big no-no for MVC
> development.
>  >
>  > How come?  I don't fully understand the MVC paradigm yet.  It would seem
>  > easier on the surface if an SQL programmer didn't have to know Java?  Is
>  > there an implicit (or even explicit) understanding that MVC dictates that
>  > the Controller has to be Java?  Sorry, this is a newbie question again
> ...
>  > sheesh I have really been out of touch! :)
>
> I agree, what you want to do is probably quicker and simpler for *initial*
> development, especially when you're the only one working on the project.
> however, it may easily become much more difficult to maintain, upgrade, or
> debug.  it will make it more difficult to divide up various portions of the
> development process among multiple people.
>
> though i'm by no means an expert on the various paradigms (Model 1, Model 2,
> HMVC, Pull-MVC, etc.) or a diehard MVC purist, i agree with the basic
> principle.  the primary idea of MVC design is the separation of the "model"
> (underlying data structure and logic) from the "view" (user interface).
> it's
> all about the separation of concerns, which allows for more efficient
> division
> of labor, simplifies testing, and makes it easier to replace or upgrade one
> piece of your app without having to mess with all of it.  putting SQL calls
> (deep part of the model) directly into a velocity template (the view layer)
> is
> basically throwing MVC design to the wind.  personally, i think that's
> probably fine to do for small projects sometimes, but that's not in keeping
> with the aims of the velocity-tools project.
>
> oh, and MVC doesn't really have anything to do with Java.  it's a design
> paradigm that's often useful/wise for any language and for the desktop as
> much
> as the web.
>
> Nathan Bubna
> nathan@esha.com
>
>
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