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From Daniel Dekany <>
Subject Re: A 1.5 release date?
Date Sun, 07 May 2006 17:38:40 GMT
Sunday, May 7, 2006, 2:53:33 PM, Jonathan Revusky wrote:

> of FreeMarker of several years ago. That is how far behind the state of
> the art this project is technically. In that vein, the 1.5 release date,
> while important, is still too little, too late. Even a stable 1.5 
> release will not be remotely competitive with production/stable versions
> of FreeMarker of three or even four years ago.

The question is, how do you measure if how competitive a project is.
If you measure it by how successful (nearly means, popular, widely
respected, famous) a project is, then it has little to do with the
technical qualities of the project. OK, a certain level of technical
quality must be reached, but after that... what matters is marketing,
i.e. the manipulation of what the mass thinks. Now, unlike Velocity,
FreeMarker is weak on the marketing field, and probably it always will
be. Thus, to be competitive, let me mind you, that you (or... we)
should invest a *lot* into fixing all the design mistakes of
FreeMarker, and improve it's quality in general. Thus debating too
much on this list may not be a good way of using your time. You are
the main developer there after all.

> Well, the thing is that these projects under a Jakarta/ASF umbrella get
> a lot more attention and usage than they would otherwise, and surely, 
> this is precisely because people think that these projects are more 
> likely to be actively maintained and developed than other open source 
> projects. I think it's important that people should open their eyes and
> realize that this is not particularly the case.

Sure. For the sake of fullness, however, it should be mentioned that
FreeMarker also had and has problems with development inactivity. It's
not better then Velocity if we ask how much is the maintenance
guaranteed. Still, it has developed faster than Velocity... Why is
that? I think, that at the end of the day, it because of the mentality
of the main contributors. They really love to improve the stuff
(instead of seeking *excuses* if why a new feature goes against the
philosophy of the project, so they have to do nothing, or admit any
past mistakes). Just for the pure sake of joy. Some people there, are
genuinely interested in the template engine topic (yeah, there are
such perverts... :)), even if it they can seldom find time to lift
some heavy weight. It's that good-old hacker mentality (I don't mean
cracker here; nowadays hacker is often used as a synonym of that, who
knows why...), that was maybe there when the whole OS/FSF stuff have
started. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have the feeling that this mentality
is less and less significant at ASF (or maybe it never was
significant). I feel it rather shows similarity to some kind of
business concern. (Jonathan had a good blog entry about this:
If I'm right with my feelings, then I think that for most of the young
ASF fan people this thing is bad. They are in most cases not the part
of the group who has benefits from this. <sarcasm>Unless, of course,
they win a plasma TV by trying Geronimo.</sarcasm>

Best regards,
 Daniel Dekany

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