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From "Nathan Bubna" <nbu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: A 1.5 release date?
Date Sun, 07 May 2006 01:57:44 GMT
On 5/6/06, Peter Harrison <peter@nbn.co.nz> wrote:
> Velocity continues to be one of the primary technologies I use, but
> there are a few annoying bugs that have been "planned" for future
> releases and never made.
>
> The point is that without a tight release cycle a open source project
> will stagnate.

well, we can release 1.5 with known issues.  if that's really what
most people prefer, i'm willing to consider it.  in my opinion, 1.4
was released that way.  i'm not convinced it means more work will
actually be done.  i'd personally rather spend my time fixing things
that bother me and adding nice features than regularly rolling and
publishing releases.  but again, if that will get you guys to help get
things done rather than go on about nothing getting done...  that
would be motivating to me.  i can't speak for the other committers
though.

> The primary problem I see is that any work done in
> Velocity will not make a release version anytime soon. If I thought that
> improvements would make it into a release I would have fixed them by now
> in the original codebase.

and if things were fixed, then we'd feel like releasing sooner.  catch-22!  :)

> There are two major "bugs" I know of:
>
> 1. Setting a value to Null is ignored. Yes, I know its in the docs, its
> been discussed to death here, but has not seen a fix in years, eben
> though its a consensus that this should not be the right behaviour.

this behavior is configurable in 1.5-dev and has been for a while. 
there was still debate over the default setting though, so for now it
is still false.  you will need to set:

directive.set.null.allowed = true

> 2. Having a Null in the first object within a list will cause the method
> cache to fail, and that column will have empty values for every column.

AFAIK, 1 & 2 are basically the same thing in the underlying code.  if
the above property does not do both, let us know.  i haven't had need
to use this myself yet, so i'm unsure.

> There is a nasty work around code in every view for these issues.

not in mine.  look, i know this bugged many people for years, and i've
always been in favor of changing it.  but i've also never been bitten
by it and understand why some of the early developers resisted it and
made it that way in the first place.  now that the change is in, let's
move on.

> I am not a newbie, have used Velocity for years, and continue to believe it
> is better than JSP. However, I would like to see active development, and
> I am prepared to help so long as I know that the work will actually be
> released.

Are you asking if we'll *ever* release the code or if we'll put the
particular work you do in?  The answer to the first is yes, of course.
 The second, of course, depends on the work.

> I'm not being critical for its own sake - I believe in Velocity, and my
> work depends on it. I would like to see it improved. I would like to
> take part in that improvement. But I need to know that those who control
> the process will release my work in a timely manner.

look, this is an open source project.  you are free to fix issues. 
you are free to update the wiki and contribute patches to the docs. 
you are free to call for a release and start a vote thread when you
feel the dev trunk is ready.  you are even free to build and test the
release.

yes, you'd need one of us (i'd happily volunteer) to review, test, and
commit your patches, and for the release you'd need three binding
+1's.  but i think you'll find us all quite willing to help in that
small way (at least me), and if you started doing much of that at all,
then you would soon be one of those who control the process.

it's not as if we don't want a 1.5 release or even a tighter release
cycle in general.  that'd be great.  i don't say these things so much
as though i prefer it this way.  this is just my explanation of the
reality of the situation.  my time is limited (and i'm sure that goes
for Will, Henning, Daniel, and Geir too).  i do what i can.  if that
is not enough to please everyone, then all i can offer is an apology. 
 my priorities and responsibilities are what they are.  i haven't the
free time i used to (funny how a pregnant wife and a mortgage can
change things!). :)

> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
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