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From "Malcolm Edgar" <>
Subject Re: The Guardian website moves to Velocity
Date Sun, 13 May 2007 02:05:55 GMT
Velocity is not obsolete, and is actually better suited to a wider
market which want a simpler easy to framework than FreeMarker.

regards Malcolm Edgar

On 5/13/07, Jonathan Revusky <> wrote:
> Robert Koberg wrote:
> > On Sat, 2007-05-12 at 23:03 +0200, Jonathan Revusky
> >
> >
> >>>    <xslt in="${docgen.manualsrc.dir}/book.xml"
> >>>out="${docgen.output.dir}/book.html"
> >>>        style="${docgen.transformsrc.dir}/xsl/db.xsl" force="true">
> >>>        <factory name="com.icl.saxon.TransformerFactoryImpl"/>
> >>>        <!--
> >>>            <factory
> >>>name="org.apache.xalan.xsltc.trax.TransformerFactoryImpl"/>
> >>>            <factory name="com.icl.saxon.TransformerFactoryImpl"/>
> >>>        -->
> >>>    </xslt>
> >>
> >>ClassNotFoundException. What needs to be on the CLASSPATH to run this?
> >
> >
> > I don't know if I can/want to help you if you can't get a core Ant task
> > to run.
> Okay, that's it. It's over. Just fuck off, Bobby boy. This interaction
> is over. This level of utter insolence is just too much.
> Yeah, obviously, anybody who asks you what you need on the CLASSPATH to
> run something in Java must be a lamer.
> Oh, except for one little thing... the lamer in question has made
> substantial contributions to the application space, while you have
> contributed nothing. Like, every time you go to all kinds of high
> profile web sites (the City of Paris comes to mind... but plenty of
> others... any forum that uses Jive forums or JForum...) whenever you go
> there, some code I wrote is running in the background to serve the pages
> you're looking at.
> Yet you affect this superiority where I am an obvious incompetent to be
> asking you what has to be on the CLASSPATH to run something. This is
> just too much. It's over.
> Lest you say I'm trying to weasel out, well... look... you were trying
> to cheat anyway. You claim that XSLT would "blow away" our
> transformation and then supposedly you win the challenge by having
> something just equally fast. How is that "blowing away" something? And
> there was no quid pro quo on the thing, where if you failed, you had to
> pay anything, so you know....
> >
> > I did mention if you want to use Saxon (what I had defaulted in my
> > copy/paste example), you would have to have that in the classpath - an
> > easy way to do that is put the saxon 6.5.5 jar in the $ANT_HOME/lib dir.
> I'm losing interest in the whole thing. I somehow got snookered into
> this whole performance discussion anyway. Performance is secondary. The
> reason FM would be a good alternative to XSLT in many cases is that the
> programming model is more intuitive for many, probably most, people.
> There isn't that much reason for the two things to perform so very
> differently insofar as they both walk the tree and output stuff. OTOH,
> they're tools with completely different paradigms. XSLT is a tree
> transformation tool and the FM is a plain text template engine. So I
> accept that XSLT might be a better fit for certain things, since it's a
> different paradigm completely. The FM vs. Vel discussion is different,
> since FM and Vel are basically the same tool paradigmatically. and FM is
> just better: it's sufficiently more advanced in design and execution and
> its features set, that Vel is just obsolete. It's like SVN vs. CVS.
> But, all that aside, take this as you will. I just don't want to
> interact with you any more. It's too distasteful.
> Jonathan Revusky
> --
> lead developer, FreeMarker project,
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>transform:
> >>      [xslt] DEPRECATED - xalan processor is deprecated. Use trax instead.
> >>      [xslt] DEPRECATED - xslp processor is deprecated. Use trax instead.
> >>      [xslt] java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:
> >>
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