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From Jonathan Revusky <>
Subject Re: The Guardian website moves to Velocity
Date Sat, 12 May 2007 22:28:18 GMT
Robert Koberg wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-05-12 at 23:03 +0200, Jonathan Revusky 
>>>    <xslt in="${docgen.manualsrc.dir}/book.xml"
>>>        style="${docgen.transformsrc.dir}/xsl/db.xsl" force="true">
>>>        <factory name="com.icl.saxon.TransformerFactoryImpl"/>
>>>        <!--
>>>            <factory
>>>            <factory name="com.icl.saxon.TransformerFactoryImpl"/>
>>>        -->
>>>    </xslt>
>>ClassNotFoundException. What needs to be on the CLASSPATH to run this?
> I don't know if I can/want to help you if you can't get a core Ant task
> to run. 

Okay, that's it. It's over. Just fuck off, Bobby boy. This interaction 
is over. This level of utter insolence is just too much.

Yeah, obviously, anybody who asks you what you need on the CLASSPATH to 
run something in Java must be a lamer.

Oh, except for one little thing... the lamer in question has made 
substantial contributions to the application space, while you have 
contributed nothing. Like, every time you go to all kinds of high 
profile web sites (the City of Paris comes to mind... but plenty of 
others... any forum that uses Jive forums or JForum...) whenever you go 
there, some code I wrote is running in the background to serve the pages 
you're looking at.

Yet you affect this superiority where I am an obvious incompetent to be 
asking you what has to be on the CLASSPATH to run something. This is 
just too much. It's over.

Lest you say I'm trying to weasel out, well... look... you were trying 
to cheat anyway. You claim that XSLT would "blow away" our 
transformation and then supposedly you win the challenge by having 
something just equally fast. How is that "blowing away" something? And 
there was no quid pro quo on the thing, where if you failed, you had to 
pay anything, so you know....

> I did mention if you want to use Saxon (what I had defaulted in my
> copy/paste example), you would have to have that in the classpath - an
> easy way to do that is put the saxon 6.5.5 jar in the $ANT_HOME/lib dir.

I'm losing interest in the whole thing. I somehow got snookered into 
this whole performance discussion anyway. Performance is secondary. The 
reason FM would be a good alternative to XSLT in many cases is that the 
programming model is more intuitive for many, probably most, people. 
There isn't that much reason for the two things to perform so very 
differently insofar as they both walk the tree and output stuff. OTOH, 
they're tools with completely different paradigms. XSLT is a tree 
transformation tool and the FM is a plain text template engine. So I 
accept that XSLT might be a better fit for certain things, since it's a 
different paradigm completely. The FM vs. Vel discussion is different, 
since FM and Vel are basically the same tool paradigmatically. and FM is 
just better: it's sufficiently more advanced in design and execution and 
its features set, that Vel is just obsolete. It's like SVN vs. CVS.

But, all that aside, take this as you will. I just don't want to 
interact with you any more. It's too distasteful.

Jonathan Revusky
lead developer, FreeMarker project,

>>      [xslt] DEPRECATED - xalan processor is deprecated. Use trax instead.
>>      [xslt] DEPRECATED - xslp processor is deprecated. Use trax instead.
>>      [xslt] java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: 

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