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From Christopher Townson <>
Subject Re: a programming exercise integrating velocity with spring ... for general interest of this list
Date Thu, 12 May 2011 07:35:34 GMT
> Spring and Velocity are both under the Apache license.  So, licensing
> something that integrates the two under the GPL is a non sequitur.
> And this is an Apache list, so you're going to get a little Apache
> sermon, like it or not.

I expected nothing less :)

The non-sequiter argument, vis-a-vis Spring and Velocity licencing is
a good one - this did cross my mind briefly and I certainly do not
consider anything about this project (including the licence) to be

I regard the current initial version to more like a submission to peer
review, if you like: something I was interested to see what people in
the community thought of. If there were any interest, I would expect
modifications/adjustments based on their feedback, which would
constitute a new version. The licence may change as part of that ...
I'll give it some thought based on your "sermon" of course :)

> This are 2 major flaws with GPL: 1) It is untouchable for companies
> like mine, depriving GPL projects of our valuable participation.  2)
> Enforcement is nigh impossible because violation is very difficult to
> detect and legal redress is too costly.
> The Apache approach, however, believes that good communities make the
> best code and good community starts with freedom and goodwill, not
> restrictions.  There are always cheaters and leechers and slapping the
> GPL on your code won't even slow them down.  So, ignore them and focus
> on the honest folks, many of whom can't distribute their end products
> for free.  So, let them do as they will with the code and focus on
> building a good community around a project.  All of the code your
> project is built on and meant for use with was built on goodwill and
> complete freedom of use.  All the community that would potentially use
> it is accustomed to that freedom and goodwill.  Do you really think it
> is wise or feasible to try enforcing new conditions upon them?

As it happens, from a philosophical perspective, yes I do believe that
it is wise to try and enforce new conditions ... the feasibility is a
separate question, of course. But I really shouldn't digress into that
discussion here because it is a long one. One of my other less
finishable side projects is a book on the philosophy & politics of
software development (esp. with regard to the concept of software
craftsmanship which has become a popular sub-domain of the agile
movement). Perhaps one day I shall publish that book (if I ever do, I
have no doubt the publisher will slap copyright signs all over it and
sell it at a huge markup of which I would see little! ;-) ... and yet
they would still try to claim that their involvement facilitates
rather than hinders the distribution of information and knowledge.)

However, as a programming exercise (i.e. it was not driven out of any
real-world application use cases I am currently dealing with), it
remains within the realm of the "ideal" where feasibility is not a
concern ...

... should it ever move beyond its current state and there are real
people who are really interested in using it in real projects, then I
might well reconsider. Let's see how it goes ... you might hate the
code once you see it! ;-)



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