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From "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Mon, 03 Nov 2008 11:14:33 GMT
I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
this point, i'll say get lost!

thanks,
dims

On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready
> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things
> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a
> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>
>> -- dims
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>
>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> -- dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>
>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them
and
>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
that
>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
quo
>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from
other
>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>> useless
>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>> projects
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's.
Please
>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now
after
>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or
ask
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from
their
>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the
"
>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2"
list
>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
they
>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person
is
>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>> <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
them.
>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would
change
>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We
can see if
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn
area where
>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that
mandates
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th
time again.
>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should
be taking the
>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose
we try
>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to
fix
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com

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