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From Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanj...@opensource.lk>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:28:25 GMT
Deepal, what does s/ws/axis2/g achieve?

Sanjiva.

Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may
>> help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's
>> response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are
>> beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to
>> ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
>>   
> VOTE is the final thing , and I still can not understand why most the
> people do not want to make Axis2 TLP. In other projects they try a lot
> to make a their project into TLP , here it is totally different. If no
> one agree to make Axis2 TLP , I would suggest RENAME WS into Axis2. Just
> having one Web service project inside Apache WS is not fair , I think
> right approached would be for the people against making Axis2 a TLP
> fight to get other Apache Web services project into Apache WS.
> 
> Deepal
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>   
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>     
>>>> Samisa,
>>>>
>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>
>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new
>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and
>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as
>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with
>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>
>>>>       
>>> IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a
>>> rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be
>>> to combine all those efforts together.
>>>
>>> Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be
>>> easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However,
>>> you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even
>>> it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase
>>> Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in
>>> technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Samisa...
>>>
>>>     
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
that
>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
quo
>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other
>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           
>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after
>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain.
>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>> projects,
>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless
>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects
>>>>> it
>>>>> has.
>>>>>
>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However,
>>>>> I
>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please
>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after
>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
the
>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list
>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
they
>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things
>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
them. How
>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
projects
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can
see if we
>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area
where both
>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time
again. Those
>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be
taking the
>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose
we try
>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>           
>>>>> --
>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>
>>>>       
>>> --
>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 


-- 
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/

Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/

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