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From Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanj...@opensource.lk>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Axis2 as TLP
Date Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:25:35 GMT
I have read your emails but I did not find an explanation of why you think 
we're a shell of what we used to be.

While I of course realize that you have personal issues against me, this 
is a community discussion and you should try to keep the conversation 
about the community and not about your issues with me.

If you don't want to explain your position that we've recently gone 
downhill that's fine, but telling me to get lost is not good enough and 
MOST CERTAINLY will not work. I've been around here since before any of 
this stuff existed and I sure ain't going nowhere .. not as long as I'm 
alive and kicking!

Nice try, though.

Sanjiva.

Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
> this point, i'll say get lost!
> 
> thanks,
> dims
> 
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
> <sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
>> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be ready
>> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how things
>> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt at a
>> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>>
>> Sanjiva.
>>
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>>
>>> -- dims
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>> <sanjiva@opensource.lk> wrote:
>>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>>
>>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis you're
>>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>>
>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>
>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- dims
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right
now
>>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to
the
>>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make
a new
>>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart
and
>>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2
as
>>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't
we
>>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better
with
>>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>> <samisa.abeysinghe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read
them and
>>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
that
>>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate
TLP."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current
status quo
>>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint
from other
>>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now,
even
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's
sub
>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to
be a
>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this
situation,
>>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's.
Please
>>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring
now after
>>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them
or ask
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from
their
>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not
in the "
>>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on
Axis2" list
>>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell
us what they
>>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the
same
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person
is
>>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>>> <eran.chinthaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>>> <davanum@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please
enumerate them.
>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what
would change
>>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC
work
>>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and
related
>>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios.
We can see if
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common
svn area where
>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout
that mandates
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th
time again.
>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should
be taking the
>>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i
propose we try
>>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going
to fix
>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>> --
>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>>
>>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>
>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: axis-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: axis-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/

Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/

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