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From Andreas Veithen <andreas.veit...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: What's next for WS@Apache? Discuss.
Date Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:12:09 GMT
What about creating a Wiki page with an initial proposal where people
can indicate their interest in joining as PMC members/committers of
the new TLPs?

Andreas

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 03:28, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tuesday 20 April 2010 8:49:02 pm Eran Chinthaka Withana wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm still confused about this re-org. People started this re-org, saying
>> that the projects inside old-WS project was not manageable and no knows
>> whats going inside all the projects. It was also mentioned that, since
>> project X people also get to have a say in project Y (where X,Y are in WS),
>> it will be a mess.
>> Now why is this theory not applying to Axiom or XmlSchema projects. They
>> are totally independent projects, that can be used beyond Axis2. Also some
>> one concentrating only on XmlSchema or Axiom might not be interested in
>> Axis2 project or its Karma. So why do you wanna put them inside Axis2 or
>> new WS project, once again making the same mistake we had earlier?
>>
>> Axis2 depends on Axiom and XmlSchema, but not the other way round.
>
> Well, Axiom I think has enough going on with it and enough activity that could
> warrant it being a TLP.   I really could go either way on that.
>
> If you follow board@ at all (I know, most of you cannot follow it) and the
> board meeting summaries and such, one of the other things that they are not
> liking lately are the repeat "Nothing happened this quarter" reports occuring
> over and over and over from the projects.   For some of the smaller, less
> active, projects (like XmlSchema), there would definitely be a danger of
> falling into that path and the board would be concerned about the
> oversight/community of such small projects.
>
> So there needs to be some level of balance between being able to properly
> provide oversight to everything going on in the project along with being able
> to show there is an active and healthy community.   The question is how to
> achieve that?  If a project like Axiom feels it can go it alone, I would
> definitely support it (providing the new PMC is large enough), but I'd also
> support keeping the smaller ones together until they are "ready" or until the
> technology becomes irrelevant and it goes to the Attic.
>
> Dan
>
>> Dan, if new WS project should not be an umbrella project, then why do you
>> think we should put Axiom/XmlSchema inside it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eran Chinthaka
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org> wrote:
>> > On Tuesday 20 April 2010 7:54:27 pm Glen Daniels wrote:
>> > > Hi Sanjiva,
>> > >
>> > > Sorry for the late reply.
>> > >
>> > > On 4/17/2010 3:37 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
>> > > > Glen, your proposal amounts to having gone thru a lot of pain to have
>> > > > simply TLPed Axis. The entire board prerogative was to break up WS
>> > > > wasn't it?
>> > >
>> > > My interpretation was that it was more "WS is too big" than "WS should
>> > > entirely go away".  There are plenty of other projects at Apache that
>> >
>> > have
>> >
>> > > a reasonable number of subprojects, with related functions and
>> >
>> > development
>> >
>> > > communities.  I'm not yet convinced that there is sufficient community
>> > > around some of the individual subprojects to bootstrap a happy PMC, and
>> > > there also may be good reason to keep some of these things together.
>> > >
>> > > I think reducing WS from >17 subprojects in a two-level container down
>> > > to
>> >
>> > a
>> >
>> > > single-level container for 6 common Web Service related components
>> > > would
>> >
>> > be
>> >
>> > > a pretty good accomplishment... and nothing prevents that from being an
>> > > intermediate step towards spinning off further TLPs down the road.
>> > >
>> > > I'm not saying I'm -1 to more TLPs, by the way, just exploring my
>> > > off-the-cuff impressions.
>> >
>> > Just want to say I completely agree with everything Glen said.  Well put.
>> > It's also my understanding that getting WS down to a smaller, more
>> > concentrated project targeting shared WS technologies would be acceptable
>> > and
>> > really would no longer be an "umbrella" project.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > > --Glen
>> > >
>> > > > I'd prefer to make a bunch of new TLPs - give people a chance to grow
>> > > > into new roles as well. All the ones you listed as "keep" should be
>> >
>> > TLPs
>> >
>> > > > IMO. There is no "minimum size" required to be a TLP.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sanjiva.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Glen Daniels <glen@thoughtcraft.com
>> > > >
>> > > > <mailto:glen@thoughtcraft.com>> wrote:
>> > > >     Hey y'all,
>> > > >
>> > > >     So as per my earlier mail to the dev lists, we need to talk
>> >
>> > about...
>> >
>> > > >     * Which subprojects should be promoted to TLPs?
>> > > >     * Which subprojects should be migrated to the Attic?
>> > > >     * What should the structure look like for what remains?
>> > > >
>> > > >     Here's what we've got to work with.
>> > > >
>> > > >     1. Axiom (commons)
>> > > >     2. Neethi (commons)
>> > > >     3. XmlSchema (commons)
>> > > >     4. Tcpmon (commons)
>> > > >     5. Guththila (commons)
>> > > >     6. JaxMe
>> > > >     7. jUDDI
>> > > >     8. Scout
>> > > >     9. Muse
>> > > >     10.Woden
>> > > >     11.WSIF
>> > > >     12.WSS4J
>> > > >     13.XMLRPC
>> > > >
>> > > >     Let's talk Attic first.  It seems WSIF and Muse have been pretty
>> >
>> > much
>> >
>> > > >     inactive for some time now, so I'd propose we get the ball
>> > > >     rolling with proposals to Attic both of those.  JaxMe also
seems
>> > > >     ripe for the Attic.
>> > > >
>> > > >     I think that it's pretty clear jUDDI and Scout should migrate
>> > > >     together to a
>> > > >     new TLP, Apache jUDDI, with Kurt as chair.  Thoughts?
>> > > >
>> > > >     Does anyone outside of Axis2/C use Guththila?  If not, I'd
>> > > >     suggest that migrate to Axis.
>> > > >
>> > > >     Is there enough activity on XMLRPC to keep it alive?  Jochen?
>> > > >
>> > > >     Personally, I'd probably prefer to leave Axiom, Neethi,
>> > > >     XmlSchema, and Tcpmon
>> > > >     as subprojects of WS.  I'd like to get rid of the "commons"
>> > > >     layer, though,
>> > > >     since I think the "new" WS project should itself be a set of
>> > > >     commonly useful
>> > > >     WS components.  I know other ideas have been discussed for
the
>> > > >     commons stuff,
>> > > >     so let's start that discussion and get the various opinions
out
>> > > >     on the table?
>> > > >
>> > > >     That leaves Woden and WSS4J.  Maybe Woden should stay in WS?
 As
>> >
>> > for
>> >
>> > > >     WSS4J,
>> > > >     I'm not sure if it should stay or become a TLP.
>> > > >
>> > > >     So... what do you guys think?
>> > > >
>> > > >     Thanks,
>> > > >     --Glen
>> > > >
>> > > >     P.S.  Reminder - please fill out your sections of our board
>> > > >     report for this
>> > > >     month if appropriate!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Daniel Kulp
>> > dkulp@apache.org
>> > http://dankulp.com/blog
>
> --
> Daniel Kulp
> dkulp@apache.org
> http://dankulp.com/blog
>

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