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From Daniel Spiewak <>
Subject Re: Quick Start Documentation
Date Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:00:47 GMT
I agree that the magic should be explained.  Assaf is the one to ask on this
count, since I don't personally have a clue how it works.  I do know that it
is quite deterministic, just clever in that determinism.  :-)


On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Martin Grotzke <> wrote:

> On Wed, 2009-07-29 at 12:35 -0500, Daniel Spiewak wrote:
> > >
> > > forgive my ignorance, but how exactly does buildr do that? i can see
> that
> > > you can download a file from a given url, but where is the code that
> digs
> > > into a zip to extract a jar from it?
> >
> >
> > Don't ask me how Buildr does it, but somehow...  Probably just on the
> > strength of Assaf's brilliance.  The code shown in the
> quick_start.textile
> > will download DBPool and auto-extract the JAR from the zipfile,
> installing
> > it into the local repository.  I actually copy/pasted that code from a
> > buildfile I have used in the past which used exactly that functionality.
>  It
> > really works.
> I asume most of the ant users (except for those that are using ivy) are
> used to store jars locally in some lib/ directory, and then keep a list
> of compile-libs and run-libs in the build.xml. For those kind of people
> it's hard to trust the "magic" (hell?) of maven dependencies, and also
> to depend on the fact, that you have connectivity. Additionally, they
> want to make sure that no SNAPSHOTS are used, as otherwise there's the
> possibility of different versions of jars on different build/developer
> machines. All this throws in a lot of indefinite things a successful
> build depends on.
> If then the build tool itself additionally does things that are not
> really deterministic (are they?), the build feels even more magically
> and less trustworthy. That's the reason why I would not propagate this
> feature in the quickstart, or at least it should be clear that it is
> definitely deterministic and no magic at all.
> I think no one wants to depend on magic for a successful build, and from
> my experience that's where a lot of maven critics comes from. A simple,
> comprehensible and reproducable build is the goal IMHO.
> So, again, I'd vote for mentioning that buildr can do lots of stuff and
> link to appropriate places.
> Cheers,
> Martin
> PS. if you definitively want to mention that buildr can download and
> extract artifacts, what about a sentence in the tip like "and if you
> want, buildr can even download a zip file and extract the artifact for
> you - less work for you! (See magic explanation <link>here</link>)"?
> >
> > Daniel

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