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From Francesco Chicchiriccò <>
Subject Re: C3 and XSP equivalent
Date Wed, 04 Apr 2012 09:56:11 GMT
Hi Greg,
sorry for the delay: you will find my reply embedded below.


On 02/04/2012 11:00, gelo1234 wrote:
> Hello,
> We've been using Cocoon framework for years and are very happy with 
> its simplicity and RAD features.
> Although we use very old version of Cocoon (2.0.5), it still satisfies 
> us.
> Unfortunately there are some bugs inside those old framework libs that 
> we cannot fix as well as some memory leaks
> from libraries that are no longer in use. That's why we soon plan to 
> upgrade to the newest release of Cocoon.
> And i have few questions related to that topic:
> 1. Is C3 stable enough to give it a try in a production ?

Stable enough to give a try? Yes.
Ready for production? No, unless you have enough skills to dive inside 
the source code. There are C3-based projects in production out there, 
but latest release is alpha [1], and development version is still beta1.

> 2. Is there any equivalent of XSP in C3 ?

Not really. As you say below, XSP were already deprecated in C2.1.
The only template mechanism available in C3 is StringTemplate [2] which 
is way less flexible (and error-prone) than XSP.

> The flexibility of XSP is very important to us in terms of introducing 
> many new/short changes
> very fast to our web application. We just make a change and that's all 
> - cocoon engine recompiles the java-related
> class and it is instantly available to us - no recompiling from our 
> dev team, no deployment, no app server restart no fuss at all!
> It allows us for very rapid changes! That's exactly the kind of 
> flexibility we want to have in our dev environment.
> And we were much worried when in next Cocoon releases the support for 
> XSP was abandoned. As far as i know
> XSP became deprecated in C2.1.11 to be totally removed in C2.2.x and i 
> suppose in C3.
> I didn't dig much into all the features of new Cocoon but it seems 
> like in C2.1/2.2 the best thing to use on the "controller" side
> is Flowscript code. We were hesitating to switch from pure Java 
> controller code to Javascript/Flowscript
> code because in my opinion the continuation mechanism is error-prone, 
> yet the developer must take care of many intricacies
> around session/continuation expire times and so on. But the main 
> reason for us not to go for it was the language -
> Javascript - NOT Java. Although if i get it right, you can just 
> instantiate any Java object and get access to any Java library available
> around from Javascript, it is not as much flexible as java was in XSP. 
> Though it still doesn't require any recompiling!/redeployment phase
> from  the dev team as i assume.
> In C3 you can have Java controllers called and that is Good, but it 
> does require recompiling the Java
> class and redeploy it on the server (and restart app server?). So it 
> will be much much SLOWER than just dynamic-recompiling by cocoon 
> engine without any server restart.
> So i wonder if there is any mechanism on the controller side available 
> in C3 that enabled us to still use Java but doesn't require from us 
> recompiling java code/making redeployment/restarting the application 
> server ?

Sure: you can empower cocoon-maven-plugin [3] for this, or even setup 
something external like JRebel.

> 3. Is Flowscript using some separate javascript engine like V8 ? Is it 
> run inside JVM as a dynamic language feature ?
> Whats is a preferred method to be used as a logic controller in C3 - 
> Flowscript or Java ?

There is no support at all for Flowscript / continuations in C3.

> 4. We don't want to go yet with C3 alpha-3 because it still uses old 
> Xerces and XML-API libs. We found out there are some issues with those 
> old libs under Tomcat 7 while working with "bloated" XML namespaces or 
> handling some SAX errors. They had led to some memory leaks in our 
> environment.
> I spotted on the changelog that you have just updated C3 beta to the 
> newest Xerces/XML-APIs. Thank you very much for this. I really 
> appreciate that important change. Can we have some light on when the 
> beta is released?

Nice question, indeed :-)
I'd suggest to send a separate e-mail about this topic to dev ML.



Francesco Chicchiriccò

Apache Cocoon PMC and Apache Syncope PPMC Member

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