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From Jacob Kjome <h...@visi.com>
Subject Re: [POLL] Moving UGLI outside Apache?
Date Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:54:46 GMT

Will this allow us to continue to include UGLI in Log4j.jar or will it be
required to be a separate jar?  Also, what are our plans for UGLI?  I haven't
followed the commons-dev list.  Is there any new information being provided
there as to JCL's plans?  Is UGLI part of it?  If we continue with UGLI and JCL
doesn't go with it, are we prepared to continue with UGLI or are we going to
drop it for whatever JCL comes up with?  Is JCL dead-set on developing JCL 2.0
instead of moving to an agnostic (external to Apache) logging API or is there a
possibility of discontinuing it?  Are we (Log4j and JCL) prepared to promote two
"competing" logging API's?

Moving UGLI outside Apache might help it become more accepted, and it is a good
point that GPL and LGPL projects probably need to depend on a logging API with
a  non-Apache license.  But there are also these issues with JCL that need to
be worked out.  Do we have official answers for these questions?  If not, then
the move is fine for UGLI but maybe not so fine (or maybe just irrelevant) for


Quoting Ceki Gülcü <ceki@qos.ch>:

> Greetings to all,
> As a result of discussions held on this list and on commons-dev, I
> think starting a new project based on or similar to UGLI outside
> Apache Logging Services would benefit the wider OS community.
> For one, many open source projects based on GPL or LGPL licenses
> refuse to adopt log4j because of its Apache license which they deem
> incompatible with their own. Whether the Apache Software license is
> incompatible with GPL or LGPL is a matter of debate beyond the scope
> of this email note. I am merely relaying the position adopted by the
> Free Software Foundation, whose opinion carries considerable weight in
> the open source world.
> Given  UGLI's tiny  size,  I  think we  should  consider changing  its
> license to BSD or MIT, in  order to facilitate its wider adoption.  As
> an immediate consequence,  we would need to move  UGLI outside the ASF
> because the foundation will not host software not Apache licensed.
> Just as importantly, I think the lessons learned from the JCL
> experience warrant a new approach. A new start should allow for
> participants from the commons-dev community as well as Apache Logging
> Services to share their knowledge in more open and cordial atmosphere.
> Do you think starting a new project, based or similar to UGLI outside
> the ASF is an option worth exploring?  Other comments? Opinions?
> --
> Ceki Gülcü
>    The complete log4j manual: http://www.qos.ch/log4j/
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