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From Lyor Goldstein <lgoldst...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Q: SSHD - Should we add dependencies to Apache Commons or not ?
Date Fri, 17 Aug 2018 13:19:30 GMT
>>>  We should be careful when trying to replace existing code with
external libraries because there is rarely a guarantee that it will work
exactly as the old code does.

I agree in principle, but am not sure about "rarely a guarantee" -
especially in this case where the code is a 100% duplicate of the external

>>> Dependencies create problems when the dependent project decides to
slightly change the behavior of X class (for some reason) then our project
starts showing random bugs every 16 hours because of it.

True, but isn't it why we have unit tests in place ? Granted that there is
no 100% guarantee, but what is the alternative ? Repeat work that has
already been done elsewhere again and again and again ?

I have seen quite a few libraries that have adopted the avoidance principle
and if one looks at their code, it is D.R.Y. (Do Not Repeat yourself) at
its purest form. Everybody seems to have their "own" logging, *StringUtils*,
*CollectionUtils*, *MapUtils, IOUtils*, etc., that virtually do the exact
same thing all over again.

>>> Unless the dependent code is huge (like Bouncycastle), I
think it rarely works out as a energy-time-saver.

 In this case I could even argue (just for the sake of this discussion)
"what if the 3rd part developers went so far as to add malware code ?" Does
this mean that we are doomed to always write all our code in-house
because  because
we can't trust the other developers to be good or honest ? In that case
let's ditch *slf4j *and write our own logger wrapper framework (it is not
such a huge task)....

    :-)) I am not really suggesting this, just making a point ...

Seems to me that the same points can be made of *any *code - huge medium or
small - you either trust it or not. So we

* choose libraries that are widely popular, thus minimizing bug risks on
one hand due to their widespread usage, and increasing chances that
existing/new bugs are more likely to be discovered quickly and fixed - if
only due to "peer pressure" from the developers community

* choose libraries that are open-source - so we can at least debug
problems, and if push comes to shove, perhaps devise a workaround if the
dependent code bug is not fixed

* choose libraries from "reputable" sources - ones that are known to
produce high quality code, and at the same time are quick to address bugs
(I am happy to say that I consider the Apache Foundation such an
organization ...)

To summarize, all the points you have raised are indeed very valid concerns
that need to be addressed and their pros and cons considered very
carefully. I am not advocating any kind of "extremist" policy in this case
- neither 100% reliance on 3rd party libraries nor 100% avoidance of them.
My own opinion is that it is indeed  very much a matter of *measure*

- how much code are you repeating

- are you repeating trivial code that is basically "write once and forget"
or complex one that is likely to require frequent maintenance

Thanks a lot for the insightful remarks

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