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From Milinda Pathirage <milinda.pathir...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: BPM ecosystem at Apache
Date Tue, 08 Jun 2010 07:54:41 GMT
IMHO, as the first step, we should try to bring ODE, Apache Hise, and
BPEL4Peple implementation together and do a release which provide basic BPM
tools. WDYT?

Thanks
Milinda

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Paul Fremantle <pzfreo@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is a balance to be had here. Firstly, the idea of super-projects
> and sub-projects is tricky. I personally think that in this case it
> might have some merit, but I agree with others I don't think its going
> to fly just now. But maybe the approach will change.
>
> However, I'm very positive about Tammo's overall goals here: I'd
> really like to see a more co-ordinated and active roadmap and and
> encourage people to see that we have focussed plans around BPM. I'm
> certainly willing to help out with whatever I can.
>
> Paul
>
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Btw, don't get me wrong.  I don't say you should not start implementing
> WSHT
> > or anything else inside Ode.
> > I'm just saying that *aiming* at being an umbrella project is not the
> best
> > thing to do.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:41, Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:00, Tammo van Lessen <tvanlessen@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> okay, first I agree that integrating and sharing code of multiple sub
> >>> projects into one repository with one build system makes sense and
> makes
> >>> integration, testing etc. easier. Although I think they should be
> >>> packaged separately (e.g. as mvn bundles and dists) as WSHT
> >>> implementations are probably also interesting for people not
> necessarily
> >>> interested in ODE. I think the Solr/Lucene guys did some similar merge.
> >>>
> >>> If those subprojects are consumable independantly, they may be better
> as
> >> two peer TLPs at the end.
> >> Because you will end up in two different communities: some new
> committers
> >> will be involved in one
> >> project but not the other.
> >>
> >> Anyway, it mostly depend on the size of the subprojects and the size of
> >> their respective communities.
> >> You'd better start either in the incubator or in ode, and see what the
> >> status is in one year.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Regarding umbrellas: No matter if it's called bpm.apache.org or
> >>> ode.apache.org, it will probably become an umbrella. I understand that
> >>> the ASF likes top-level-projects, but I personally find it very
> >>> difficult currently to find projects that are related, belong together
> >>> or are intended to be used together, simply because their names not
> >>> really suggest that they belong to a certain domain. That's why I
> >>> actually really like ws.apache.org or db.apache.org because I always
> >>> know what I can expect to find there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> FWIW, Apache Web Services is being kinda dismantled as Axis is being
> spin
> >> off as a TLP.
> >> And the names you refer to (ws and db) would actually never be accepted
> as
> >> new TLP afaik.
> >> Because the ASF does not have any technical vision / roadmap / strategy,
> >> you can have
> >> multiple TLP on the same domain (consider CXF / Axis, but there are
> other
> >> examples too).
> >> So having a bpm.apache.org would not be possible I think.
> >>
> >> The fact that it's difficult to find projects for a given technology is
> >> irrelevant to the fact that they
> >> are grouped into a single TLP or not I think.  For that, the
> >> projects.apache.org site should be
> >> improved imo.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Tammo
> >>>
> >>> On 07.06.2010 15:47, Rafal Rusin wrote:
> >>> > I think growing ODE is the way to go, because in the end, things will
> be
> >>> > integrated, which means a lot.
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Last time I looked, umbrella projects were still frowned upon at
the
> >>> ASF
> >>> >> ...
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 15:32, Tammo van Lessen <
> tvanlessen@gmail.com>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Hi guys,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I'd like to raise a discussion about the ecosystem at Apache
around
> >>> ODE
> >>> >>> in particular and BPM in general.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> While ODE is getting mature and provides a stable BPEL execution,
> the
> >>> >>> BPM market is moving on, bringing up new languages (BPMN 2.0),
new
> >>> human
> >>> >>> task definitions (WSHT), new integrations (BPEL4People), new
> projects
> >>> >>> (Apache Hise), new adopters (JBoss Riftsaw), etc.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I think it is time to discuss not only an adjusted road map
for ODE
> >>> >>> (adding support for BPMN 2.0 and BPEL4People/WSHT) but also
the BPM
> >>> >>> ecosystem at Apache.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Apache Hise is currently under incubation and ODE is the sponsoring
> >>> PMC.
> >>> >>> There may also be other BPM related projects that may want
to find
> >>> their
> >>> >>> home at Apache, but not necessarily under the umbrella of ODE,
> which
> >>> >>> would directly connect them with BPEL and/or process execution.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I think we should think about founding a BPM umbrella PMC at
Apache
> >>> the
> >>> >>> can serve as the home of Ode, Hise, and whatever BPMish project
> that
> >>> >>> will come up in future. Honestly, this is yet just an uncooked
> idea,
> >>> but
> >>> >>> I'd like to get your opinions on that. WDYT?
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Thanks,
> >>> >>>  Tammo
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> --
> >>> >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Cheers,
> >>> >> Guillaume Nodet
> >>> >> ------------------------
> >>> >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> >>> >> ------------------------
> >>> >> Open Source SOA
> >>> >> http://fusesource.com
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >> Guillaume Nodet
> >> ------------------------
> >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> >> ------------------------
> >> Open Source SOA
> >> http://fusesource.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > Guillaume Nodet
> > ------------------------
> > Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> > ------------------------
> > Open Source SOA
> > http://fusesource.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Fremantle
> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2
> Apache Synapse PMC Chair
> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>
> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
> paul@wso2.com
>
> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>



-- 
Milinda Pathirage
Technical Lead & Product Manager WSO2 BPS; http://wso2.org/bps
WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com
E-mail: milinda@wso2.com, milinda.pathirage@gmail.com
Web: http://mpathirage.com
Blog: http://blog.mpathirage.com

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