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From Andy Konwinski <>
Subject Re: IMPORTANT: Spark mailing lists moving to Apache by September 1st
Date Fri, 20 Dec 2013 03:19:06 GMT
Hey Mike,

As you probably noticed when you CC'd,
that list has already be reconfigured so that it no longer allows posting
(and bounces emails sent to it).

We will be doing the same thing to the list
too (we'll announce a date for that soon).

That may sound very frustrating, and you are *not* alone feeling that way.
We've had a long conversation with our mentors about this, and I've felt
very similar to you, so I'd like to give you background.

As I'm coming to see it, part of becoming an Apache project is moving the
community *fully* over to Apache infrastructure, and more generally the
Apache way of organizing the community.

This applies in both the nuts-and-bolts sense of being on apache infra, but
possibly more importantly, it is also a guiding principle and way of

In various ways, moving to apache Infra can be a painful process, and IMO
the loss of all the great mailing list functionality that comes with using
Google Groups is perhaps the most painful step. But basically, the de facto
mailing lists need to be the Apache ones, and not Google Groups. The
underlying reason is that Apache needs to take full accountability for
recording and publishing the mailing lists, it has to be able to
institutionally guarantee this. This is because discussion on mailing lists
is one of the core things that defines an Apache community. So at a minimum
this means Apache owning the master copy of the bits.

All that said, we are discussing the possibility of having a google group
that subscribes to each list that would provide an easier to use and
prettier archive for each list (so far we haven't gotten that to work).

I hope this was helpful. It has taken me a few years now, and a lot of
conversations with experienced (and patient!) Apache mentors, to
internalize some of the nuance about "the Apache way". That's why I wanted
to share.


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Mike Potts <> wrote:

> I notice that there are still a lot of active topics in this group: and
> also activity on the apache mailing list (which is a really horrible
> experience!).  Is it a firm policy on apache's front to disallow external
> groups?  I'm going to be ramping up on spark, and I really hate the idea of
> having to rely on the apache archives and my mail client.  Also: having to
> search for topics/keywords both in old threads (here) as well as new
> threads in apache's (clunky) archive, is going to be a pain!  I almost feel
> like I must be missing something because the current solution seems
> unfeasibly awkward!
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