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From Erik Erlandson <eerla...@redhat.com>
Subject Re: Should python-2 be supported in Spark 3.0?
Date Tue, 18 Sep 2018 01:53:59 GMT
I think that makes sense. The main benefit of deprecating *prior* to 3.0
would be informational - making the community aware of the upcoming
transition earlier. But there are other ways to start informing the
community between now and 3.0, besides formal deprecation.

I have some residual curiosity about what it might mean for a release like
2.4 to still be in its support lifetime after Py2 goes EOL. I asked Apache
Legal <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-407> to comment. It is
possible there are no issues with this at all.


On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Reynold Xin <rxin@databricks.com> wrote:

> i'd like to second that.
>
> if we want to communicate timeline, we can add to the release notes saying
> py2 will be deprecated in 3.0, and removed in a 3.x release.
>
> --
> excuse the brevity and lower case due to wrist injury
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 4:24 PM Matei Zaharia <matei.zaharia@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That’s a good point — I’d say there’s just a risk of creating a
>> perception issue. First, some users might feel that this means they have to
>> migrate now, which is before Python itself drops support; they might also
>> be surprised that we did this in a minor release (e.g. might we drop Python
>> 2 altogether in a Spark 2.5 if that later comes out?). Second, contributors
>> might feel that this means new features no longer have to work with Python
>> 2, which would be confusing. Maybe it’s OK on both fronts, but it just
>> seems scarier for users to do this now if we do plan to have Spark 3.0 in
>> the next 6 months anyway.
>>
>> Matei
>>
>> > On Sep 17, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Mark Hamstra <mark@clearstorydata.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > What is the disadvantage to deprecating now in 2.4.0? I mean, it
>> doesn't change the code at all; it's just a notification that we will
>> eventually cease supporting Py2. Wouldn't users prefer to get that
>> notification sooner rather than later?
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:58 PM Matei Zaharia <matei.zaharia@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I’d like to understand the maintenance burden of Python 2 before
>> deprecating it. Since it is not EOL yet, it might make sense to only
>> deprecate it once it’s EOL (which is still over a year from now).
>> Supporting Python 2+3 seems less burdensome than supporting, say, multiple
>> Scala versions in the same codebase, so what are we losing out?
>> >
>> > The other thing is that even though Python core devs might not support
>> 2.x later, it’s quite possible that various Linux distros will if moving
>> from 2 to 3 remains painful. In that case, we may want Apache Spark to
>> continue releasing for it despite the Python core devs not supporting it.
>> >
>> > Basically, I’d suggest to deprecate this in Spark 3.0 and then remove
>> it later in 3.x instead of deprecating it in 2.4. I’d also consider looking
>> at what other data science tools are doing before fully removing it: for
>> example, if Pandas and TensorFlow no longer support Python 2 past some
>> point, that might be a good point to remove it.
>> >
>> > Matei
>> >
>> > > On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Mark Hamstra <mark@clearstorydata.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > If we're going to do that, then we need to do it right now, since
>> 2.4.0 is already in release candidates.
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 10:57 AM Erik Erlandson <eerlands@redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > I like Mark’s concept for deprecating Py2 starting with 2.4: It may
>> seem like a ways off but even now there may be some spark versions
>> supporting Py2 past the point where Py2 is no longer receiving security
>> patches
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 12:26 PM Mark Hamstra <
>> mark@clearstorydata.com> wrote:
>> > > We could also deprecate Py2 already in the 2.4.0 release.
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:46 AM Erik Erlandson <eerlands@redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > In case this didn't make it onto this thread:
>> > >
>> > > There is a 3rd option, which is to deprecate Py2 for Spark-3.0, and
>> remove it entirely on a later 3.x release.
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Erik Erlandson <eerlands@redhat.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > On a separate dev@spark thread, I raised a question of whether or
>> not to support python 2 in Apache Spark, going forward into Spark 3.0.
>> > >
>> > > Python-2 is going EOL at the end of 2019. The upcoming release of
>> Spark 3.0 is an opportunity to make breaking changes to Spark's APIs, and
>> so it is a good time to consider support for Python-2 on PySpark.
>> > >
>> > > Key advantages to dropping Python 2 are:
>> > >       • Support for PySpark becomes significantly easier.
>> > >       • Avoid having to support Python 2 until Spark 4.0, which is
>> likely to imply supporting Python 2 for some time after it goes EOL.
>> > > (Note that supporting python 2 after EOL means, among other things,
>> that PySpark would be supporting a version of python that was no longer
>> receiving security patches)
>> > >
>> > > The main disadvantage is that PySpark users who have legacy python-2
>> code would have to migrate their code to python 3 to take advantage of
>> Spark 3.0
>> > >
>> > > This decision obviously has large implications for the Apache Spark
>> community and we want to solicit community feedback.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>

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