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From Petar Zecevic <petar.zece...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Discourse: A proposed alternative to the Spark User list
Date Thu, 22 Jan 2015 09:33:30 GMT

Ok, thanks for the clarifications. I didn't know this list has to remain 
as the only official list.

Nabble is really not the best solution in the world, but we're stuck 
with it, I guess.

That's it from me on this subject.

Petar


On 22.1.2015. 3:55, Nicholas Chammas wrote:
>
> I think a few things need to be laid out clearly:
>
>  1. This mailing list is the “official” user discussion platform. That
>     is, it is sponsored and managed by the ASF.
>  2. Users are free to organize independent discussion platforms
>     focusing on Spark, and there is already one such platform in Stack
>     Overflow under the |apache-spark| and related tags. Stack Overflow
>     works quite well.
>  3. The ASF will not agree to deprecating or migrating this user list
>     to a platform that they do not control.
>  4. This mailing list has grown to an unwieldy size and discussions
>     are hard to find or follow; discussion tooling is also lacking. We
>     want to improve the utility and user experience of this mailing list.
>  5. We don’t want to fragment this “official” discussion community.
>  6. Nabble is an independent product not affiliated with the ASF. It
>     offers a slightly better interface to the Apache mailing list
>     archives.
>
> So to respond to some of your points, pzecevic:
>
>     Apache user group could be frozen (not accepting new questions, if
>     that’s possible) and redirect users to Stack Overflow (automatic
>     reply?).
>
> From what I understand of the ASF’s policies, this is not possible. :( 
> This mailing list must remain the official Spark user discussion platform.
>
>     Other thing, about new Stack Exchange site I proposed earlier. If
>     a new site is created, there is no problem with guidelines, I
>     think, because Spark community can apply different guidelines for
>     the new site.
>
> I think Stack Overflow and the various Spark tags are working fine. I 
> don’t see a compelling need for a Stack Exchange dedicated to Spark, 
> either now or in the near future. Also, I doubt a Spark-specific site 
> can pass the 4 tests in the Area 51 FAQ 
> <http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq>:
>
>   * Almost all Spark questions are on-topic for Stack Overflow
>   * Stack Overflow already exists, it already has a tag for Spark, and
>     nobody is complaining
>   * You’re not creating such a big group that you don’t have enough
>     experts to answer all possible questions
>   * There’s a high probability that users of Stack Overflow would
>     enjoy seeing the occasional question about Spark
>
> I think complaining won’t be sufficient. :)
>
>     Someone expressed a concern that they won’t allow creating a
>     project-specific site, but there already exist some
>     project-specific sites, like Tor, Drupal, Ubuntu…
>
> The communities for these projects are many, many times larger than 
> the Spark community is or likely ever will be, simply due to the 
> nature of the problems they are solving.
>
> What we need is an improvement to this mailing list. We need better 
> tooling than Nabble to sit on top of the Apache archives, and we also 
> need some way to control the volume and quality of mail on the list so 
> that it remains a useful resource for the majority of users.
>
> Nick
>
> ​
>
> On Wed Jan 21 2015 at 3:13:21 PM pzecevic <petar.zecevic@gmail.com 
> <mailto:petar.zecevic@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>     I tried to find the last reply by Nick Chammas (that I received in the
>     digest) using the Nabble web interface, but I cannot find it
>     (perhaps he
>     didn't reply directly to the user list?). That's one example of
>     Nabble's
>     usability.
>
>     Anyhow, I wanted to add my two cents...
>
>     Apache user group could be frozen (not accepting new questions, if
>     that's
>     possible) and redirect users to Stack Overflow (automatic reply?). Old
>     questions remain (and are searchable) on Nabble, new questions go
>     to Stack
>     Exchange, so no need for migration. That's the idea, at least, as
>     I'm not
>     sure if that's technically doable... Is it?
>     dev mailing list could perhaps stay on Nabble (it's not that
>     busy), or have
>     a special tag on Stack Exchange.
>
>     Other thing, about new Stack Exchange site I proposed earlier. If
>     a new site
>     is created, there is no problem with guidelines, I think, because
>     Spark
>     community can apply different guidelines for the new site.
>
>     There is a FAQ about creating new sites:
>     http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>     It says: "Stack Exchange sites are free to create and free to use.
>     All we
>     ask is that you have an enthusiastic, committed group of expert
>     users who
>     check in regularly, asking and answering questions."
>     I think this requirement is satisfied...
>     Someone expressed a concern that they won't allow creating a
>     project-specific site, but there already exist some
>     project-specific sites,
>     like Tor, Drupal, Ubuntu...
>
>     Later, though, the FAQ also says:
>     "If Y already exists, it already has a tag for X, and nobody is
>     complaining"
>     (then you should not create a new site). But we could complain :)
>
>     The advantage of having a separate site is that users, who should
>     have more
>     privileges, would need to earn them through Spark questions and
>     answers
>     only. The other thing, already mentioned, is that the community
>     could create
>     Spark specific guidelines. There are also  'meta' sites for asking
>     questions
>     like this one, etc.
>
>     There is a process for starting a site - it's not instantaneous.
>     New site
>     needs to go through private beta and public beta, so that could be a
>     drawback.
>
>
>     Like btiernay, I must say: there might be something about Apache
>     projects
>     and mailing lists that I do not know, so excuse me if that is the
>     case...
>
>
>
>
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>     Sent from the Apache Spark User List mailing list archive at
>     Nabble.com.
>
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