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From Petar Zecevic <petar.zece...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Discourse: A proposed alternative to the Spark User list
Date Thu, 22 Jan 2015 09:49:14 GMT

But voting is done on dev list, right? That could stay there...

Overlay might be a fine solution, too, but that still gives two user 
lists (SO and Nabble+overlay).


On 22.1.2015. 10:42, Sean Owen wrote:
>
> Yes, there is some project business like votes of record on releases 
> that needs to be carried on in standard, simple accessible place and 
> SO is not at all suitable.
>
> Nobody is stuck with Nabble. The suggestion is to enable a different 
> overlay on the existing list. SO remains a place you can ask questions 
> too. So I agree with Nick's take.
>
> BTW are there perhaps plans to split this mailing list into 
> subproject-specific lists? That might also help tune in/out the subset 
> of conversations of interest.
>
> On Jan 22, 2015 10:30 AM, "Petar Zecevic" <petar.zecevic@gmail.com 
> <mailto:petar.zecevic@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     Ok, thanks for the clarifications. I didn't know this list has to
>     remain as the only official list.
>
>     Nabble is really not the best solution in the world, but we're
>     stuck with it, I guess.
>
>     That's it from me on this subject.
>
>     Petar
>
>
>     On 22.1.2015. 3:55, Nicholas Chammas wrote:
>>
>>     I think a few things need to be laid out clearly:
>>
>>      1. This mailing list is the “official” user discussion platform.
>>         That is, it is sponsored and managed by the ASF.
>>      2. Users are free to organize independent discussion platforms
>>         focusing on Spark, and there is already one such platform in
>>         Stack Overflow under the |apache-spark| and related tags.
>>         Stack Overflow works quite well.
>>      3. The ASF will not agree to deprecating or migrating this user
>>         list to a platform that they do not control.
>>      4. This mailing list has grown to an unwieldy size and
>>         discussions are hard to find or follow; discussion tooling is
>>         also lacking. We want to improve the utility and user
>>         experience of this mailing list.
>>      5. We don’t want to fragment this “official” discussion community.
>>      6. Nabble is an independent product not affiliated with the ASF.
>>         It offers a slightly better interface to the Apache mailing
>>         list archives.
>>
>>     So to respond to some of your points, pzecevic:
>>
>>         Apache user group could be frozen (not accepting new
>>         questions, if that’s possible) and redirect users to Stack
>>         Overflow (automatic reply?).
>>
>>     From what I understand of the ASF’s policies, this is not
>>     possible. :( This mailing list must remain the official Spark
>>     user discussion platform.
>>
>>         Other thing, about new Stack Exchange site I proposed
>>         earlier. If a new site is created, there is no problem with
>>         guidelines, I think, because Spark community can apply
>>         different guidelines for the new site.
>>
>>     I think Stack Overflow and the various Spark tags are working
>>     fine. I don’t see a compelling need for a Stack Exchange
>>     dedicated to Spark, either now or in the near future. Also, I
>>     doubt a Spark-specific site can pass the 4 tests in the Area 51
>>     FAQ <http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq>:
>>
>>       * Almost all Spark questions are on-topic for Stack Overflow
>>       * Stack Overflow already exists, it already has a tag for
>>         Spark, and nobody is complaining
>>       * You’re not creating such a big group that you don’t have
>>         enough experts to answer all possible questions
>>       * There’s a high probability that users of Stack Overflow would
>>         enjoy seeing the occasional question about Spark
>>
>>     I think complaining won’t be sufficient. :)
>>
>>         Someone expressed a concern that they won’t allow creating a
>>         project-specific site, but there already exist some
>>         project-specific sites, like Tor, Drupal, Ubuntu…
>>
>>     The communities for these projects are many, many times larger
>>     than the Spark community is or likely ever will be, simply due to
>>     the nature of the problems they are solving.
>>
>>     What we need is an improvement to this mailing list. We need
>>     better tooling than Nabble to sit on top of the Apache archives,
>>     and we also need some way to control the volume and quality of
>>     mail on the list so that it remains a useful resource for the
>>     majority of users.
>>
>>     Nick
>>
>>     ​
>>
>>     On Wed Jan 21 2015 at 3:13:21 PM pzecevic
>>     <petar.zecevic@gmail.com <mailto:petar.zecevic@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi,
>>         I tried to find the last reply by Nick Chammas (that I
>>         received in the
>>         digest) using the Nabble web interface, but I cannot find it
>>         (perhaps he
>>         didn't reply directly to the user list?). That's one example
>>         of Nabble's
>>         usability.
>>
>>         Anyhow, I wanted to add my two cents...
>>
>>         Apache user group could be frozen (not accepting new
>>         questions, if that's
>>         possible) and redirect users to Stack Overflow (automatic
>>         reply?). Old
>>         questions remain (and are searchable) on Nabble, new
>>         questions go to Stack
>>         Exchange, so no need for migration. That's the idea, at
>>         least, as I'm not
>>         sure if that's technically doable... Is it?
>>         dev mailing list could perhaps stay on Nabble (it's not that
>>         busy), or have
>>         a special tag on Stack Exchange.
>>
>>         Other thing, about new Stack Exchange site I proposed
>>         earlier. If a new site
>>         is created, there is no problem with guidelines, I think,
>>         because Spark
>>         community can apply different guidelines for the new site.
>>
>>         There is a FAQ about creating new sites:
>>         http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>>         It says: "Stack Exchange sites are free to create and free to
>>         use. All we
>>         ask is that you have an enthusiastic, committed group of
>>         expert users who
>>         check in regularly, asking and answering questions."
>>         I think this requirement is satisfied...
>>         Someone expressed a concern that they won't allow creating a
>>         project-specific site, but there already exist some
>>         project-specific sites,
>>         like Tor, Drupal, Ubuntu...
>>
>>         Later, though, the FAQ also says:
>>         "If Y already exists, it already has a tag for X, and nobody
>>         is complaining"
>>         (then you should not create a new site). But we could complain :)
>>
>>         The advantage of having a separate site is that users, who
>>         should have more
>>         privileges, would need to earn them through Spark questions
>>         and answers
>>         only. The other thing, already mentioned, is that the
>>         community could create
>>         Spark specific guidelines. There are also  'meta' sites for
>>         asking questions
>>         like this one, etc.
>>
>>         There is a process for starting a site - it's not
>>         instantaneous. New site
>>         needs to go through private beta and public beta, so that
>>         could be a
>>         drawback.
>>
>>
>>         Like btiernay, I must say: there might be something about
>>         Apache projects
>>         and mailing lists that I do not know, so excuse me if that is
>>         the case...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         View this message in context:
>>         http://apache-spark-user-list.1001560.n3.nabble.com/Discourse-A-proposed-alternative-to-the-Spark-User-list-tp20851p21299.html
>>         Sent from the Apache Spark User List mailing list archive at
>>         Nabble.com.
>>
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>


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