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From Sergey Livanov <>
Subject Re: Use of Javascript [was] Re: AJAX: Whoa, Nellie!
Date Mon, 02 May 2005 15:08:05 GMT

I liked the smartclient technology very much! It's great!
Just wondering if there will be a similar possibility in
Java Server Faces?
Can I combine the capabilities of JSF and AJAX ?

RR> Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) wrote the following on 4/19/2005 5:30 AM:

>> I also think that a well-designed web-UI does not need JS at all...

RR> Sorry to jump on the train late, but the above is completely BS. If you 
RR> want to use standard HTML, then there will be some things you will HAVE 
RR> to do with Javascript or else without its use, just the opposite would 
RR> be true, you'd have a totally CRAPPY-designed UI.

RR> I'll give you an example. In quick summary, this application has to have 
RR> the user select various checkboxes in a tree-list structure and as they 
RR> select various checkboxes different lines need to change color (turn to 
RR> gray for example to show that inheritance is implied). Not only that, 
RR> but based on whether a certain checkbox is selected in a row a date div 
RR> box needs to become enabled and visible. The bottom line is if you do 
RR> not use javascript you'd have to go to the server for everything 
RR> creating a completely unsatisfactory user experience. The users should 
RR> be able to click all over the place without having to wait for the 
RR> server to respond each time. Even if you wanted to go to the server for 
RR> every single possible checkbox click, how could you even do that without 
RR> some javascript? Tell me how you can design a good UI that does not 
RR> involve javascript for this application (other than saying use Flash or 
RR> some other font end presentation). Bottom line is any somewhat complex 
RR> UI for a company will have to involve the use of some javascript.

RR> If you disgree than I'll send screen shots of various internal 
RR> applications I have to code and you tell me how you can get around not 
RR> using Javascript?  I could just look around on the web and give examples 
RR> where you'd need javascript. Think of cases where on a form you select 
RR> one option from a drop down and the other list needs to change. Even if 
RR> you go to the server to repopulate the other list (which I like to do), 
RR> it still requires and onChange event on the initial drop down list to 
RR> fire off the submit.  How do you do this without javascript? - create a 
RR> walk-through UI design? That would be completely unacceptable under a 
RR> lot of circumstances.


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