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From John Jones <blackrook...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Usage of Batik in SWT apps
Date Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:50:20 GMT
Thanks for your reply, Andres.

> Static means that my document is not Dynamic (i.e. it is simply for 
> visualization, and takes no benefit from interaction and or animation, 
> nor event dispatching from the SVG).

So this begs the question from the newbie:  Doesn't this mean that 
zooming is a dynamic?

>>
>> This will likely be an issue, so thanks for the heads up.
> 
> 
> I guess that this kind of issues are the ones the folks at holongate try 
> to fix.
> 

I have been reading up on the Holongate stuff, and it seems to be a 
bridge between Batik (it is included) and the Draw2D structure of SWT 
(replacing Java2D?).  So it is, essentially, an Adapter between SWT and 
Batik.

> You can program everything in SWT, DOM and Java2D (for affineTransforms, 
> etc.) There is no need to go to AWT for all your other application widgets.

Good to hear.  That validates my readings and understanding thus far.

> If what you want to leverage out of Eclipse is the RCP framework, i may 
> suggest (with no intention to start a dispute) you may take a look at 
> the netbeans RCP. With the new NeatBeans 5.0 they have gone a long way 
> to make it easier and more accessible to build RCP applications. You no 
> longer have to fight the cluster_harness nightmare, now it is fully 
> integrated with the IDE, you you can focus in developing, instead of 
> deploying.

No argument from me.  :)  What I am looking for is expert opinion and 
advice, as I am just learning.  I am teaching myself to program for this 
project (I am a Sr. Unix Administrator by trade) as a hobby goal.  I am 
having fun learning and designing, but many Real Programmers would say I 
am approaching things wrong.  I have been studying Java for two years, 
as I can, and this is just part of my learning process.

I wonder about building the game using traditional graphics... then work 
to rip that out (or Adapter pattern it) and replace it with SVG in the 
Second Time Through.  But I'd rather spend the time learning and 
evaluating up front, then focus on mastering one technology.

> If SVG is fundamental for your application, and the Mac is an important 
> target, then the balance indicates to use Netbeans. In my company we 
> have made this shift already, since we need to be able to deploy on Mac, 
> and our app is SVG based.

Then maybe I can beg your advice based on my overall goals?

- Deployable as Java (run anywhere).
- All graphics engine done in SVG.  I am really attracted to the XML 
backend for various reasons:
     - ease of creation/editting of maps
     - small transfer size of images for maps, overlays, etc
       during a network game.
     - XML is validatable, so I can have a map validator tool
       for end users.
     - Tree structure of XML data should allow for 'layers' in
       the graphics of the program.  Turning on and off grid lines
       on the map, for instance.

Now, disappointingly, Java doesn't seem to support SVG natively, so 
there seems to be little to no real resource for a learner out there 
when starting to center an application around this technology. :(  What 
books and sites do cover seem to be either approaching SVG from a 
Web-designer's angle, or is written to a developer's level so it leaves 
me struggling.  Holongate's site is this way, and in a lot of ways, as 
is the Batik site.  But I am making headway by messing up and going 
through the JavaDocs.  Currently, I am trying to build an SWT JSVGCanvas 
example as a proof of concept, giving me a base understanding how things 
tie/depend together.

I am studying SWT/JFace in order to maximize the app's 
acceptance/audience, and also to cut down on development time as it 
seems that it clears up a lot of problems with Swing, not to mention 
making a lot of things easier/cleaner to code.  And... because a few 
Real Programmers recommended this direction since I have no legacy 
application code married to Swing.  But at this point, as the entire 
project is still in the design phase, right now is a great time to be 
switching or choosing technologies.

So, any advice on technologies to investigate and read up on, I would 
whole-heartedly appreciate.  You guys are the experts, so showing me 
something I am not yet aware of will be well received. :)


John
BlackRookSix of OpenWarSim

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